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| Topic Started: Mar 21 2008, 10:31 PM (944 Views) | |
| Memento Mori | Mar 21 2008, 10:31 PM Post #1 |
Founder
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I hate Smash Balls. They can go to hell. After playing for about two hours straight, I think I've figured out their thought process. Upon appearance: "I'm not gonna break for you no matter how many times you hit me -- in fact, I'm gonna dodge so I can go float at face level in front of your opponent, k? Oh, and I'll be weakening myself so s/he can break me with one good fair." After being broken: "Also, I really hate you, so if you do manage to get me, I'm gonna leave as soon as someone hits you with any sort of attack at all. That alright? Oh, but I really like your opponent, s/he's hawt. So once s/he gets me (and we both know s/he will), I'm never going to leave. You can hit him/her with all the combos you please, but I refuse to give you a chance to get me ever again." Upon usage: "Oh, and by the way, I'll be arbitrarily changing the hitbox for your opponent. Making it bigger so it's easier to hit and kill you, you know. Because I really hate your guts." |
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| Giga Drill Breaker | Mar 21 2008, 10:42 PM Post #2 |
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I gotta agree, I hate them too. I mean yeah, It feels great doing a Great Aether/Super Sonic/Triforce Slash/getting into your rocket and nuking the enemies while they get eaten by bulborbs, but... Is it really worth the stress of getting them? :/ I know what you mean by the balls not breaking(ogod innuendo)...they really are annoying. |
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| Jin | Mar 21 2008, 11:09 PM Post #3 |
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Oh Vyse you forgot one "I know you all don't want me to be here so I'm going to drop in on you anyway and break with one hit, how's that sound? Good? Wonderful..." |
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| Memento Mori | Mar 21 2008, 11:11 PM Post #4 |
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Oh, are you talking about that match with me, where you broke it with one arrow or something? ...Yeah. **** Smash Balls. |
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| Jin | Mar 21 2008, 11:13 PM Post #5 |
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No Vyse, I broke 2, each with one arrow. THAT was bad lol. |
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| Kuro-chan | Mar 22 2008, 11:21 AM Post #6 |
Ninja Pirate
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Smash balls are easy to break with Peach and Ice Climbers, but I found them harder to break with sword using characters, especially Ike. I think it varies on the character on whether it's easy to break or easy to knock out. |
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| Jin | Mar 22 2008, 12:30 PM Post #7 |
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 I can 1-hit smash balls every time with Ike.
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| Kuro-chan | Mar 22 2008, 12:39 PM Post #8 |
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Ninja Pirate
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Well apparently I can't. >< |
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| Doob Zurz | Mar 22 2008, 01:57 PM Post #9 |
Super Special Awesome GSF Designer
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In a FFA, for fun, sure, I can see Smash Balls. It's chaotic enough to make the whole process unpredictable, which is the point of them, I suppose (and that of FFA I guess, too). However, in 1v1, it doesn't really make sense. Unless it's all for fun and whatnot. Not to mention some of the FS's are a little unbalanced. I mean, in a Final Smash Battle, Kirby's, who's FS is funny and pretty good at damages over 50%, can not beat Marth's, which is a OHKO at pretty much any damage. (These are if you hit of course...you can always miss..) I mean...Lucario's, which involves a GIANT ****ING LASER, does a meager 20% when he has no damage. (...it's pretty good when he's at %150+, but honestly, how often is it that he has that damage, AND managed a Smash Ball grab before the opponent grabbed it/killed him?) Thats less like a Final Smash and more like a Warm Up Smash. I think his punch combo may do more than that. So yea...while perfectly fun when the matches don't count or anything, they should stay away from important, skill based matches......and Vyse apparently...far away from him.. |
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| Jin | Mar 22 2008, 03:25 PM Post #10 |
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I'd say Pit's final smash is good in all matches, considering it can kill people with relatively low damage depending on the stage. Ice climber's final smash is very odd and very annoying, you can avoid it on a large-mid stage but it's just not possible to avoid on a small stage. I remember ice climbers got it on Shadow Moses Island once and we all stayed on the other side, nonetheless, IC's got 3 kills anyway... Kirby's is really good on one condition. You have to get an exploding box in there, then it's instant kill and Kirby gets a nutritious snack. ^^ Ike's is pretty much a 1-hit KO if you use it on the right stage but it's possible for it to not kill. Marth's, TL's, Link's, Zelda/Shiek's are all OHKO if you're on the edge of a stage, usually even in the middle. Peach's is kind of worthless if not used right. Gigabowser, Yoshi's, Ginormous Jigglypuff, and Diddy's are all... interesting, they can so one hell of a lot of damage and can PK fairly quickly, Bowser can be avoided though as can Diddy's G&W's is decent, it's kind of cheap. You're a giant octopus who pretty much one hit kills. Metaknight's can be decent... yah. I left out a lot because i'm too lazy to do the rest. |
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| Kuro-chan | Mar 22 2008, 03:38 PM Post #11 |
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Ninja Pirate
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I like the Ice Climbers FS. Even if you don't end up killing anybody, it's a great way to rack up damage on the opponent then you go for the killing move afterward or even while it's still going on. I still say Peach's is useless unless you're in a moving stage or one of your opponents has high damage or even if Peach needs healing for herself. |
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| Silver Dragoon | Mar 23 2008, 06:12 PM Post #12 |
King Deist
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Yeah, I agree with this. Plus, I really don't think that having them as the only items works out, even on Low setting. When there's only one Item, it shows up pretty frequently due to it being the only item. If there was a Very Low setting like in SSB64 and Melee, I'd be fine with it. |
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| Necrode | Mar 24 2008, 11:24 AM Post #13 |
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Well for the most part I would agree with all of you, yet I would have to disagree as well. It's not like the FS's are automatically extremelly cheap. Everyone's forgetting the prime factor that, you actually have to hit with them first. I mean take a look at it Yes, Zelda/Shiek's and Marth's are pretty much OHKO (save for Zelda/Shiek because it's almost a OHKO, but not quite, but Marth's is). But they are very difficult to hit with, the conditions of the FS for them is that the opponent has to be right in front of you. That's example 1, good FS, difficult execution. Example 2: Pit's and Kirby's Now these in essence are pretty weak FS's. But why? Well, these FS's have a huge radius in which they can work in. Pit's sends a ton of crappy angel guys flying at you that do maybe 20% damage, and likely you won't die that easily. Kirby's sucks you into the pot from basically anywhere within 15-25 ft. and does maybe 50%, and unless you're already at like 100%, you're not gonna die from it. That's example 2, easy to hit with, poor damage, less chance to die. Example 3: Sonic's and Pikachu's Now these FS's are pretty deadly...if you have a good steering thumb. Obviously these fly around the stage attempting to hit you with awesomeness. But..the downside is they're super fast and hard to control, so an opponent could easily dodge out of the way as you try and fly after them. That's example 3, good damage, high KO ratio, yet hard to control, easy to dodge All in all, I believe that they balanced out the FS's in a way that made it fair for everyone, like I was in a match against one of my friends (Jimmy, it was Charles of course XD) And I got swung at with the Link Triforce Smash 6 times during that match, and yet...I won with 3 more stock than him when we were playing with 5. And I didn't get a single smash ball. That's my 2 cents. |
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| Doob Zurz | Mar 24 2008, 03:30 PM Post #14 |
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Super Special Awesome GSF Designer
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It's true that the FS's have to hit, and that some are easy to dodge, but a lot of them aren't. Mario and Samus' are hard to dodge unless you have a character with lots of jumps. Pit's and DeDeDe's are almost impossible to dodge every little guy. Luigi's is difficult to dodge on a small stage (and most ranked matches take place on FD). G&W the landmasters, ROB, and Bowser can chase you down with theres. Not to mention the fact that we all play one another over Wi-Fi, and I haven't seen a match yet that didn't have a tiny bit of lag (even the clearest matches have that little bit) which makes it harder to dodge those really tricky ones (Zleda/Links/Marth/Ike/MK). Not trying to get everyone to think 'Hey, those Smash Balls suck' or anything.. Like I said, they're fine for fun. But in a serious skill match, they shouldn't be standard. Also, while I don't like fighting with Smash Balls, I can understand the use of them in character specific tournies, like the Link and Luigi one. It make sense there; in order to be the best with a character you need to be able to utilize their FS. |
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| Berserker Swordsman | Mar 24 2008, 05:40 PM Post #15 |
AMAZINGJOBSQUIRTLE
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Pit's is easy to dodge for me. >_> But one hit can easily kill you, as those little critters don't just stop with the one hit. |
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| Memento Mori | Mar 24 2008, 06:43 PM Post #16 |
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Founder
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In the case of Link/Marth/Zelda/Samus/etc., there's one rather key flaw in your argument: "the conditions... [are] that the opponent has to be right in front of you." This, unfortunately, is wrong. For all of these moves, simply being on the same plane as the character using one of these FSs can spell death. Link's has a more limited range, and I think Marth's stops eventually, but all of the others traverse the entire stage, as far as I know. And sure, on bigger stages, one can argue that more distance means an easier dodge. But how many ranked matches take place on stages big enough to even take advantage of that? None that I've seen. Frankly, most of the stages are so small, and Zelda and Marth move so fast, that it's like there's no distance at all. You either jump, time your dodge perfectly, or spam dodges and hope you get lucky. And like Doob pointed out, it's highly unlikely that anyone not named Pit, Meta Knight, Kirby, or Jigglypuff is gonna dodge Mario's or Samus's. Oh, and don't forget Ganondorf's, which is huge and also goes horizontally across the entire stage. So really, the execution's not so difficult, especially for a good player. Pit's FS only needs to hit you once to start a juggling combo that will probably KO you. You also seem to have forgotten that Pit can move while Palutena's Army is gunning for you, making consistent dodging even harder. Kirby's sucks if items are off, but it still does decent damage. 50% from one attack is nothing to scoff at. Sonic and Pikachu aren't hard to control once you get the hang of it. And anyone who doesn't have the hang of it won't be using those characters in a ranked match. Also, you've forgotten a few, most notably the Landmasters. On small stages like Battlefield and FD, where most ranked matches take place, Landmasters are absolutely sick. You are guaranteed to die at least once if your opponent gets a Landmaster here. The stages are just too small to dodge it effectively. And what about those with random effects, like Peach's or the Ice Climbers'? Good luck surviving on FD with an iceberg taking up the large majority of the stage. And Peach's isn't hard to hit with; if your opponents try to avoid it by staying airborne, just remember that what goes up must come down, and your FS isn't going to just disappear if you don't use it right away. Now, her FS isn't a guaranteed KO, but it does allow for massive healing in a ranked match. |
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| Jin | Mar 24 2008, 07:40 PM Post #17 |
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Just for reference I checked the lengths of some of the Smashes being discussed. Toon Link's shoots a little farther then half the distance of FD Link's shoots a little less then the full distance. Marth's easily goes the full distance of FD Ike's goes about 1/4 of FD Zelda's goes the full stage INSTANTLY. (as does Shiek's) Kirby's goes about 1/6 of FD on every side. Pit's I checked there are like 15-20 little guys and each does about 20 damage, with a standing still computer 7 hit and killed him. Ice Climber's takes up about 7/8 of FD. Luigi's (from the middle) Takes up a little more then Ice Climber's does. Jigglypuff's takes up the entirety of FD. Samus's takes up the entire stage but won't always blow them back all the way. ZSS's will suck people in from about 1/4 of FD away. A landmaster takes up about 1/2 of FD The rest I think are under different circumstances or are not debatable. |
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| 47drift | Mar 26 2008, 02:14 AM Post #18 |
Yo that's so pringles, where yo curleh moustache at.
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I must agree, Smash Balls are a tad cheap. And yet, Olimar's Up special works wonders on them. But yeah, I can't stand how that works. You might as well add: "I'll torture you by leaving through the top of the screen! That way you can frantically jump and attack upwards just to see me get just out of reach!" Regardless, they're the best items. Next to Mr. Resetti appearing via Assist Trophy. |
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| vandreand | Jun 6 2008, 06:44 PM Post #19 |
Meteor smasher
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i dont know is this is a fact but it hapens to me all time. when i am first place in a math is harder to break a smash ball and pretty easy to let it go when you get hit and it is the entire opposite to the player in last place. isnt it true? |
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| dabuz | Jun 6 2008, 06:45 PM Post #20 |
Rainbow Cookie Pikmin Master
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ill ask mr. magoo "why yes my son" |
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| indimew | Jun 7 2008, 09:59 AM Post #21 |
Advanced Member
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KFox and I have a saying for smashballs...it's "How many people does it take to hit a smash ball?" =P |
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| Ezekiel | Jun 10 2008, 07:47 PM Post #22 |
Founder
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I once OHKO'd someone under 60% with Kirby's. Do not underestimate this FS. Also, I dare you to try dodging my Super Sonic. I know at least three people have already responded, but I had to add my two cents. |
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| Memento Mori | Jun 10 2008, 08:34 PM Post #23 |
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Yeah, Sonic's is impossible to dodge if the user knows what he's doing. "Oh, just spot dodge!" What if Sonic just sits right next to you until you come out of your dodge? >_> |
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| indimew | Jun 12 2008, 08:54 AM Post #24 |
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I like the fact that Sonic has the ability to stop moving and stay there! |
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